As soon as we try to change prospective a crowd of people come out of the woods and say they want it other way.
Well surely the answer has already been given : just 2-3 people on msn for me for one year+ now, I guess they are on fessebouc or others, MSN is dying and so is yahooIM or ICQ (even more dead). Like someone else has already said, forums are dying of the same disease as well.
And of course, apple or samsung, and soon microsoft will check all applications you may install on their systems, so it's the end of freedom for the software you install as well. So even if miranda was ported for a phone, I hope most people would disagree with it entering the stupid apple and samsung systems, two companies locking the users into their "cells".
So yes, less users, less developpers, and no future for IM.
So i will say that not only that we need Miranda, but we need Miranda to change, to evolve and to change our IM experience.
I don't agree with you, because what they do with fessebouc isn't only IMing, it's IMing plus connectivity with pics, videos and such, and miranda is mostly text-based. I don't see miranda trying to catch up with that. I have seen teens, adults staying for hours on fessebouc, and I'm not even sure what they find interesting about what they're doing.
And about Emails, do you really receive as many (not professionnaly or something) as you used to ? I mean if you don't count spam and stupid jokes. IRC, are there half the people there used to ?
I am quite happy ICQ is still very popular in Czech republic. I've had the same amount of people online in my list for past five years :D
Also we don't know what microsoft will do with msn in the future, but it would sounbd logical if they make it video chat-centered, since they bought skype.
Nowadays a lot of competition over the internet the rise of social network make a big impact not only to Miranda, even other web provider also loosing their popularity. If you never came out new ideas to counter the popularity of the social network then your brand will start to sink.
I am not using Miranda, but am using "traditional" IM and not Facebook etc. I was referred to this discussion by somebody else, read it, and it struck me....
The main thing that distinguish IM and "the wall" in Facebook is, that with IM i am not stuck to the device (whatever the device be, can be PC or phone).
What i mean ?
To see if something new is on my wall, i have to _open Facebook_ and check it out. Its like F5'ing through a forum for hours to see new replies. And time flies when F5ing. Sure if i am so Facebook addicted, i will make a shortcut so that shaking my phone will automatically get me to the latest updates on the wall. But i am not. In fact i dont even have a Facebook account and i am not planing to open one in the nearest future. I want to do my stuff, on the computer or in the real world, without having the website open. I want the computer to alert me if something is happenning in real time (incoming chat request) - by a pop up window, and by Oh-oh sound if i am not too far from the computer (or so that i can pick up the phone and check out)
To post, i have to again go to Facebook. In IM however, i have the friends at 1 click on the list
Till now, very clear and i think big advantages of traditional IM.
One other thing that distinguish IM, "the wall" in Facebook etc, and forums is the lifetime of posts in there :
IM = short lived, it is ended as you close the discussion
Wall = medium lived, untill you clean it up
Forums = long lived, usually for the entire life of the forum itself
A discussion can be suitable for every one of them... but even more - it can transform throughout the chat session
I want to suggest a "new generation" IM. That will address those 2 views. And perhaps i will find here somebody who is interested in my suggestion
The way i see it now is its looking very similar to any IM software (i am using Kopete on Linux, but its basically similar to Miranda). The UI and everything is the same, and the network layer is working in a similar way
But, my IM client is not only a "memory less" chat terminal. I want it to be a small "blog server" which stores a wall of my own, which is availale to others to see through the IM. They see it in the upper part of the chat window, as it replaces the old "chat history" (it appears the same fo ra simple chat)
But i want several walls - one for each chat session. And there will be rules for which wall is available to who
Lets imagine some imaginary friends : May, Wish, and there is me
Chat session 1 : Me vs May. As we chat, it will be written on my and may's walls. (it is duplicated, because it is unimportant who initiated the chat)
Chat session 2 : At the same time, Wish contacts May. This chat will be written to _another_ may's wall (which i can't see, as well as Wish cant see the 1st one), and to Wish's wall (we can't see each other's "may walls")
Chat session 3 : The next day, me and May chat again. We can see the wall from yesterday (greyed out), and it all behave much like a traditional IM
Chat session 4 : And while chatting with May, i open a chat with Wish, opening yet another wall. as expected.
But now, i want to join May and Wish into a single chat with 3 of us. I open a "wall presentation" window (think of it as a gallery of walls that are stored by me = my walls, the current ones and the ones from the past which i did not delete yet). And i drag one of the walls onto the other
The walls of chats 3-4 are combined, on all 3 of us computers - and the chat window all 3 of us see change form into what look like a forum thread, with "reply" buttons and everything. Also, both May and Wish are updated with what they missed - it appear greyed out in the "scrolled away" region of their windows. Whatever we continue now, is on the combined wall, which will be stored by the 3 of us
However, this automation is selective. For example, Wish will only receive the wall of session 3 (me and May), but not of session 1 (me and May yesterday), which is out of the scope of the current chat for him (but May sees it since it is not out of scope for her)
The walls have a legacy. I can host them for as long as i want, and review them in the gallery. I can also decide to return to one of them to continue an uncompleted discussion. An example :
I had a discussion with Wish a week ago on subject A, and another one with him yesterday on subject B. I navigate in the wall gallery to the (somewhat faded out and the light on it is dimmed, but still existent - its fancy effects of the GUI). As i turn the spotlight back on it and post a message to it, the ordinary chat window and Oh-oh sound arrive at Wish's desktop. But, instead of the talk from yesterday, his window will see in the greyed out part (the "history" exactly the wall from a week ago
Bseides, i can post some walls as public ones - whether current ones or legacy ones. In this case, others can browse my wall gallery (only the part that i allow them to see), using the same UI as my own gallery, right through the contact list
The browsing of other's gallery feature will be combined and replace the old "away message" functionality. The tooltip in the contact list will not only show the standard "away message" string, but them clicking on it will open my wall gallery
BTW, this will not replace the "invite to chat" option to add another friend to a chat. The difference is, that when i do the traditional "invite friend" the walls will not be shared :
Me and Wish are talking to each other about May, behind her back. Then we invite May. She will not receive the wall that have been written allready (for her, the wall is what is happening from no onwards), and won't see what have been said - just at "invite friend" works with today's IM
On the network layer, i dont think that there is much to change - Perhaps this system can just be implemented as extension of the Jabber protocol. The server is only communicating us to each other. All the "logic" as well as storage of walls is local on the end user's devices
What do you say ?
It's pretty easy to think of things you want to do, or neat ideas you have, but you just never get around to them because [reddit/\./yc/whatever] is there, and you've fixed a couple bugs today.
And it's not a happy place, in the end. At least I haven't found it to be one. Stagnant. Wrong-feeling, even. Depressing.
I have a lot of respect for all of you, I've been using code from many of you for years. If things were to undergo major changes, I'm sure I wouldn't like all of it. But that's alright. I don't have to update.
Sure. Inconsiderate people will emerge from the woodwork and do what they do best. Such is application development.
If Miranda now is what you want Miranda to be, then yes! Keep it as it is now! But if not, then see where it takes you. There's little reason to go over specific suggestions, this thread has enough.
Hopefully I will be able to light a fire under my own ass and get going. Maybe I won't. But this article pointed it out to me not half a hour ago. Maybe it's a stupid Nike tagline, but Just Do It.
On a related subject, something that is long overdue:
Thank all of you for your work on Miranda. So much of my online life has happened through it, and I have yet to find a client that can be both as minimal and as flexible as Miranda is for me.
I greatly appreciate all your work. (And as much as it doesn't matter, if I had spare I would donate)