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Thread: xml-rpc interface

  1. #1
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    xml-rpc interface

    xml-rpc interface
    A xml-rpc interface (or maybe some other...) for access data. At the first place, it should be for the updater.

    ToDo
    • which data should be accessed?
    • decide the standard (xml-rpc, soap, rest...)
    • everybody? special accounts?...
    • a lot of more?! :)

  2. #2
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    Interface does not matter as long as it is not too complicated. xml-rpc looks simple enough.

    The functions we need are

    1. Some way to determine if plugin(s) I use is up to date. It could be resolved on the client (like today) or on the server. The solution should make server load the least, this is where bottleneck is (server power and bandwidth cost money).

    2. Download file (package I need)

    3. Ability to get the complete list of addons and browse and download them locally.

    That's most of it, the rest does not matter that much.


    Forgot to mention we need simpler way to upload addons, current is too convoluted, but without loosing security and legal issues.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by borkra View Post
    Interface does not matter as long as it is not too complicated. xml-rpc looks simple enough.
    And it could also be extended later.

    Quote Originally Posted by borkra View Post
    1. Some way to determine if plugin(s) I use is up to date. It could be resolved on the client (like today) or on the server. The solution should make server load the least, this is where bottleneck is (server power and bandwidth cost money).
    I want to do it over the server :)
    Quote Originally Posted by borkra View Post
    2. Download file (package I need)
    Sure, every updater should do that :D The xml-rpc should send the links back or a binary package which could be handled by the updater. So we need here to work with sje or someone who wants to work at a new updater plugin.
    Quote Originally Posted by borkra View Post
    3. Ability to get the complete list of addons and browse and download them locally.
    Because of user friendliness in miranda or why?

    Quote Originally Posted by borkra View Post
    Forgot to mention we need simpler way to upload addons, current is too convoluted, but without loosing security and legal issues.
    In which context it is too convoluted? In which way it should be more simpler? This is something which has to be discussed in relation to "[idea] addon file packages".

    tjado

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjado View Post
    Because of user friendliness in miranda or why?
    Take a look on Whatsup plugin. This functionality was requested many times, and most likely will be desired in future. Probably better web design could eliminate this need.

    The issue is current interface takes too much space, you have to browse pages and pages of plugins. Maybe different web page with tooltips or expandable items could solve this. Spreadsheet view and allow to expand if you care. Current interface is nice looking but hard to use if you do not know exactly what you are looking for, and want to just wonder around to see what out there available.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjado View Post
    In which context it is too convoluted? In which way it should be more simpler? This is something which has to be discussed in relation to "[idea] addon file packages".
    Take a look how many different screens I have to go through to update a plugin (starting from login). It's a painful process. Just to navigate to the right one I need to go to the second page. And after I updated a plugin it does not automatically return me to the main, I am sitting at some page with no use. If I want view statistics on a plugin I have scroll all the way few screens down change the selection then go back up to view it. It's painful. We need simplify the process.
    Last edited by borkra; 16 Jun 2010 at 10:40 PM.

  5. #5
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    * backend
    we're using SOAP envelopes for our CMS, but as even big players (like Mozilla) dropped it for XML-RPC, it's probably the best way to go

    * which data to access
    depends on the channel. for updater, UID, version, and beta/alpha/... status should suffice, more on other channels in the next point. this should be usable for anyone, for update reasons

    * which data to access for miranda addons UI
    I like to compare Miranda addon interfaces and functionality with Gecko's. However, I'm not sure that the Tools>Addons in Firefox is the right way to search for addons, when you can more conveniently browse through the site. For this, some kind of extension might me associated as miranda addon. So, if you click "add to miranda", it'd start/switch to miranda and give it a link for download. This would, ofc, require a standardized install config (as Gecko's install.rdf), that'd enable Miranda to understand what and where to put. The addons ui in miranda could display name, version, unicode/ansi indicator and a short description (maybe also a thumbnail. Most of the current addons don't have one, but there could be an unified one, and in the future, that's really no big deal to create specific ones. Doesn't even have to be the author himself, community could do :) this is the only point where this kind of data could be used, however, it would be contained in the plugin package, so I think there's no need to create a separate RPC channel for this kind of information

    * RPC backend bandwidth/balance
    the biggest addon updater problem now? you've got 30 addons, it makes 30 requests, or at least, it looks like that. a single request to the addons site should suffice, sending a list of UIDs installed, returning their current version on the server. done.

    *updating process in Miranda
    again, back to Gecko. Current version checks for updates and provides the user the choice to update now or to skip. The update request is done at startup or during the browsing session. I prefer during, because it might slow down/block the startup process. On the next start, the data is already cached, so on startup, Miranda just compares the current versions with the update xml data, and offers the user to update. This is where current updater fails. It checks while Miranda is starting up, so when it tells you you can update, you'd have to restart Miranda to take effect. The updating process should be blocking Miranda startup, if not skipped manually.

    * other stuff
    I'm a skilled web developer and designer, so if there's anything I can do to make the addons better, I'm here (though being a hard working person, not having lots of time to waste :) but anyway, I'm mostly the whole day hanging around on IRC, so a discussion should be always possible)

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by deb00t View Post
    the biggest addon updater problem now? you've got 30 addons, it makes 30 requests
    No it does not. It makes one request. But a lot of people chose to distribute their plugins from their own websites, by many reasons, thus many requests. And this will stay this way. Addons is just a service to developers, they can use it or not.

    The biggest reason is that if I distribute plugin from my website, the only thing I get to do, is drop file into the folder, addons I have to go through 20 screens.
    Last edited by borkra; 17 Jun 2010 at 1:08 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by borkra View Post
    No it does not. It makes one request. But a lot of people chose to distribute their plugins from their own websites, by many reasons, thus many requests. And this will stay this way. Addons is just a service to developers, they can use it or not.

    The biggest reason is that if I distribute plugin from my website, the only thing I get to do, is drop file into the folder, addons I have to go through 20 screens.
    oh, well, this should be fixed with the new upload system, I guess.

  8. #8
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    Changes since current version would be also a great feature!
    I also agree that for developers the upload process should be easied as much as possible to stimulate them to use Addons instead of their sites. Otherwise plugin set updating becomes a crazy web safari.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by deb00t View Post
    * backend
    we're using SOAP envelopes for our CMS, but as even big players (like Mozilla) dropped it for XML-RPC, it's probably the best way to go
    Yep, I think SOAP isn't necessary here.

    Quote Originally Posted by deb00t View Post
    * which data to access
    depends on the channel. for updater, UID, version, and beta/alpha/... status should suffice, more on other channels in the next point. this should be usable for anyone, for update reasons
    The interface should be very small at first. It isn't a problem to extend it later. But a good documentation and adjustment (primary with the core-dev's and updater plugin dev) is necessary. So this idea needs to be planned with "unique id" and "new updater plugin".

    Quote Originally Posted by deb00t View Post
    "So, if you click "add to miranda", it'd start/switch to miranda and give it a link for download.
    This requires modification of the windows registry (new protocol like http://, ftp://...). I thought also about this but please create a new idea thread about this, so rob and so on can give a better feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by deb00t View Post
    This would, ofc, require a standardized install config (as Gecko's install.rdf), that'd enable Miranda to understand what and where to put.
    => addon file packages

    Quote Originally Posted by deb00t View Post
    The addons ui in miranda could display name, version, unicode/ansi indicator and a short description (maybe also a thumbnail. Most of the current addons don't have one, but there could be an unified one...
    I like the Firefox Addons, because the user isn't confronted with information like version, unicode/ansi.... Also the unqiue icon per addon (only per addon, not per Theme or?) is very nice and maybe should also implemented here as a requirement (only per addon, so you need to bother only once with it...)?

    Quote Originally Posted by deb00t View Post
    * RPC backend bandwidth/balance
    the biggest addon updater problem now? you've got 30 addons, it makes 30 requests, or at least, it looks like that. a single request to the addons site should suffice, sending a list of UIDs installed, returning their current version on the server. done.
    Yep, otherwise it would be also more slowly on the client side.

    Quote Originally Posted by deb00t View Post
    *updating process in Miranda
    again, back to Gecko. Current version checks for updates and provides the user the choice to update now or to skip. The update request is done at startup or during the browsing session. I prefer during, because it might slow down/block the startup process. On the next start, the data is already cached, so on startup, Miranda just compares the current versions with the update xml data, and offers the user to update. This is where current updater fails. It checks while Miranda is starting up, so when it tells you you can update, you'd have to restart Miranda to take effect. The updating process should be blocking Miranda startup, if not skipped manually.
    You forgot a word there :P "I prefer during, because..."
    First, we need to find out if Miranda gets plugin updates/installation without restart. But this is a post for "new updater plugin" and not this thread :P

    Quote Originally Posted by deb00t View Post
    * other stuff
    I'm a skilled web developer and designer, so if there's anything I can do to make the addons better, I'm here (though being a hard working person, not having lots of time to waste :) but anyway, I'm mostly the whole day hanging around on IRC, so a discussion should be always possible)
    Thanks for your offer and suggestions :)

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