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Thread: Miranda portable not really portable.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innomen View Post
    To me plugin functionality is app functionality.
    So you want Miranda by default to support every development system out there!? It's unrealistic.

    The required development environment to create Miranda plugins that do not cause any problems is well known. But if developer chooses to ignore it, what can you do?

    Plugin developer needs to distribute appropriate run-times if he cares. A lot of plugin developers do not. The attitude is take it or leave it. It's free...

    Quote Originally Posted by Innomen View Post
    Imagine what it would be like with firefox if you had a crash every time you loaded a plugin because some file was missing.
    Do not know, do not use Firefox...

    Quote Originally Posted by Innomen View Post
    If it were up to me I'd either force a plugin compliance standard that precludes the need for the dlls or I'd include the dlls with the main app.
    And how would you force that? It's free and open, everybody does whatever pleases them.

    Again the attitude in most cases is: I share with you whatever works for me. If it does not satisfy you take a hike. You can always complain to developer of the plugin though about your wows maybe he will be kind enough to fix this stuff for you, then again maybe not.

  2. #12
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    *sigh* why am I not shocked that the moderator instantly gets rude and condescending. This always happens.

    I was just trying to say thanks and make a simple suggestion. Why am I not shocked I'm being crucified.

    Anyway saying little more on that subject, I'll respond to specifics.

    And how would you force that? It's free and open, everybody does whatever pleases them.
    I don't think it's unrealistic to adopt/enforce a standard. If a plugin doesn't work, delete it from the site.

    Open source does not automatically mean total anarchy. Someone owns the relevant domains, certain plugins could easily be black listed. There are a billion ways to pressure a standard. If anyone in a position to do so, cared.

    You aren't a developer from either end. Am I right?

    Do not know, do not use Firefox...
    Well you are aware of it's existence, that it uses plugins, that it is open source, and extremely popular, yes? Don't be obtuse. The point is we have a living breathing large scale example of how what I am suggesting CAN be accomplished regardless of the difficulties you mentioned and apathy you project.

    Attitudes like yours is why Ubuntu is failing and why Pidgin has more users.

    You can always complain to developer of the plugin though about your wows maybe he will be kind enough to fix this stuff for you, then again maybe not.
    Or maybe I could make a suggestion on the official forum in a polite manner when the subject came up about a lasting and broad spectrum fix. Wait... that didn't work out so well did it.

    Enjoy the last word, I'm sure you'd ban me or something to get it if I didn't hand it to you now. I've unsubscribed to this thread. This is me taking said hike.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    March 2005
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    Calm down please. You are not being crucified :) And borkra is not being rude, he is simply explaining that things are not as easy as you might imagine.

    As for deleting a plugin, it would not make much difference I'm afraid. Actually, there was time when it was not on available from the Addons site and people still kept installing it because the plugin could simply be downloaded from the developer's site or several other web sites.

    If you want, please feel free to ask FYR to ship the plugin with the required files or to remove the dependency. You can use the bug tracker for that: http://bugs.miranda-im.org/

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Innomen View Post
    You aren't a developer from either end. Am I right?
    You are wrong I am a core developer. And maintainer for a lot of widely used plugins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Innomen View Post
    I don't think it's unrealistic to adopt/enforce a standard. If a plugin doesn't work, delete it from the site.

    Open source does not automatically mean total anarchy. Someone owns the relevant domains, certain plugins could easily be black listed. There are a billion ways to pressure a standard. If anyone in a position to do so, cared.
    This would go against Miranda spirit. Why delete and force? Maybe this person came up with something great we just did not get it. Give this person chance to express himself maybe he will change the world :). And users well they will vote on who is better, more useful, more convenient. This is why in Miranda we very often have few plugins implementing the same functionality in a different way. And we just love it this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Innomen View Post
    Attitudes like yours is why Ubuntu is failing and why Pidgin has more users.
    Who cares about Pidgin....

  5. #15
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    March 2005
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    Yeah, I admit it's hard for me too, at times, to keep dipping the sh*t in honey. Heck, it still stinks - no doubt about that - it just takes a little longer to feel it.

    Thing is, facts are facts no matter how they're presented. And it's best they are presented as they are - not sugar-coated, not wrapped in colored paper. To the point:

    Developer A has paid certain amount of money for his copy of the development software and he's already good with handling it. Who (and why) is gonna pay for a different version of that software and the time necessary to accomodate with it - in case his operating system allows it - just to bring him to a certain standard? That's right: nobody.

    People are using whatever they can afford and they do it in their spare time. Nobody can force anyone to change unless they can and want. There have been some guidelines; some have respected them, some didn't - for various reasons. Choices are: use their products or not. Simple - no honey, no shiny wrappers.

    Borkra has said the same thing, in less words. Because he doesn't have much spare time to play with words - development is more important. Yeah Innomen, you were wrong on that, sorry.

    Man, am I glad for not being a moderator... :-)

  6. #16
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    Deja vu

    Here we are again. 8.1 breaks and reports the exact same "unable to start any..." error.

    And with some tinkering I can make it say... "No messaging plugins loaded..."

    I wouldn't have ever come back here but that I found this thread through Google using nothing more than the error search eheh.

    I'll just revert to an earlier version.

    This post is purely for informational purposes, I am (still) not subscribed to replies.
    Last edited by Innomen; 25 Jun 2009 at 10:05 PM. Reason: typo

  7. #17
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    You haven't updated all your plugins, please post VersionInfo report.

  8. #18
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    Borkra, one could probably avoid 85% of the confusion about the outdated plugins if the error messages were more descriptive. This new blacklist is not even directly mentioned in the news item on the front page, it is no wonder so many people are scratching their heads over it.

    For example:
    "Cannot load 'plugin name'

    Please update 'plugin name' to the latest version ('version number' or later) and try again."

    Albeit quite a few people don't read error messages and just go right to the forum to complain, this would at least help the ones that DO read error messages and tell them exactly what is wrong, how to fix it and what version to look for.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjossi View Post
    Borkra, one could probably avoid 85% of the confusion about the outdated plugins if the error messages were more descriptive. This new blacklist is not even directly mentioned in the news item on the front page, it is no wonder so many people are scratching their heads over it.

    For example:
    "Cannot load 'plugin name'

    Please update 'plugin name' to the latest version ('version number' or later) and try again."

    Albeit quite a few people don't read error messages and just go right to the forum to complain, this would at least help the ones that DO read error messages and tell them exactly what is wrong, how to fix it and what version to look for.
    This will change with the new plugin loader that will allow it to provide more detailed reasoning for plugins not loading. For the 0.8.x branch, it does now send a messagebox on missing srmm and clist plugins. But its doubtful much effort will go into the 0.8.x branch notifications of plugins not loading.
    Last edited by rainwater; 13 Jul 2009 at 5:11 AM. Reason: Changed to say 0.8.x

  10. #20
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    Is there any point in developing the 0.7.x branch further now that 0.8 is out?
    But a new and improved plugin loader sounds good to me, should make it easier for people to diagnose and fix plugin-compatibility related issues themselves. :-)

    (btw, someone should deal with that spam(er/bot) that posted above you)

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